When Political Ignorance Is Fatal

by Vegematic

It's been horrible. We've witnessed a corrupt judge do everything in his power to insure a blubbering, young, racist murderer walked free in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial. We've seen a president initially hailed as the new FDR show where his true allegiances lie, not with the people but with Wall St. and corporate lobbyists.  The evisceration of the BBB bill was sadly all too predictable and typical of the faux progressive and feckless Democratic party. 

Anyone not familiar with with Joe Biden's history could be forgiven for actually believing he would be a transformational president. The truth about Biden is much darker. 

A leopard doesn't change its spots, and a corporatist and drug warrior is unlikely to have an epiphany at age 78. I view Biden as the geriatric face of the Clintonite wing of the party. These neoliberal dinosaurs are desperately clinging to failed 1980s economic policies and the politics of corporate oligarchy. 

Did Americans really think that Biden, the very architect of so many of the nation's worst policies, could be trusted to repair the damage he helped to create? Perhaps people should ponder that question when they wonder why Biden has not passed a single executive order. Or why he continually refuses to use his power while pathetically pleading with the outright fascist GOP for bipartisanship.

When Biden won the 2020 election, America and the world heaved a collective sigh of relief. Sane Americans had prevailed, and it seemed for a brief time that something at least akin to democracy had been preserved. Less than a year later, we are realizing that sense of relief was to be short lived. 

Many had expected justice to be served finally after four years of the most corrupt and lawless administration in history. When Merrick Garland was appointed attorney general many believed he would indict Trump and his fellow insurrectionists. Obvious and repeated crimes had been committed, and some naively believed that no one is above the law. Instead, the infection of fascism has been allowed to fester and grow. 

You cannot give fascism any quarter. You cannot compromise with it, reason with it, or tolerate it. You must crush it with every tool at your disposal before you are crushed by it.

So where does this leave America? With the Democratic Party poised to be annihilated in next year's midterms, it appears that yet again the party has chosen corporatism over democracy. By refusing to abolish the filibuster and pass desperately needed and immensely popular legislation, they are leading the nation directly back into Trump's sweaty little hands. One has to wonder if Manchin and Sinema are merely the assigned villains in a deliberate attempt to appear powerless while mollifying the Democratic establishment's corporate donors.

America, it seems, is heading into a deep abyss. Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression laws are being passed in state after state. Without immediate passage of voters' rights legislation, the country may well end up being permanently  governed by a fascistic minority. If that happens, the Democrats will be no less culpable than the MAGA-hatted yahoos who voted for Trump.

 

BIO: Our friend from the North (Canada, that is) is back! Catch Vegematic and his spectacular tenth anniversary videos this week on his You Tube channel.  Thanks, Veg, for all you do to keep our hopes alive as you peer deeply into the moral abyss that encompasses our current society.

https://youtu.be/j_tXrQKy6NA 

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This month, world leaders met in Glasgow for the global climate talks. And while the talks were historic in many ways, we didn't see any major commitment to stop the flow of investment to oil and gas projects.

So, we're increasing the stakes. Over the coming days and months, we're going to push more financial institutions to move their money away from fossil fuels: starting with one of the biggest fossil fuel investors, public pension funds.

Your representative has the power to decide whether public pension funds shift away from climate-destroying oil, gas, and coal investments.

Tell your state representative to divest public pensions from risky fossil fuel stocks.

Why are we focusing on public pension funds?

Public pensions are some of the biggest holders of fossil fuel stocks. 30% of all fossil fuel stocks are owned by pension funds. And public pension funds are some of the biggest pools of financial capital on Earth. Just in the United States, public pension funds control over $4.5 trillion in financial assets. That's a lot of money.

Moving a financial institution this huge and powerful might seem unwinnable, but this is where things get interesting: Public pension funds are vulnerable to public pressure because politicians have a say in how they function. And the politicians answer to us.

MESSAGE YOUR STATE REPRESENTATIVE NOW

State employees – from sanitation workers to firefighters and teachers – rely on state public pension funds for their well-earned retirement. We need to make sure that their funds are divested from fossil fuel corporations whose financial outlook is looking shakier and shakier by the day.

Your representative in the state house can change this. And we’ve built a tool you can use to send a message directly to them.

Will you use our tool to tell your state representative to secure pensions from risky fossil fuel stocks?

Some pension managers are beginning to recognize that there is no long term future for fossil fuel stocks. Earlier this year, New York State took its first steps in dropping fossil fuel stocks from its public pension funds. But in order to secure the retirements of public servants in an emissions-constrained world, we need to make sure their pensions are fossil-free.

I'm not going to lie to you: This fight is going to be hard. While some fund managers are starting to see the logic and the ethics behind this, financial instutions can be quite stubborn.

But the Stand.earth community has moved difficult targets before. We've gone up against multinational oil, gas, and coal companies worth billions of dollars and have come out victorious, blocking dozens of their projects. We've shifted billions of dollars of purchasing from corporate powerhouses like Starbucks, Staples, and Levi's onto more sustainable pathways.

By getting funds to divest from fossil fuels, we're following in the footsteps of divestment movements in the past, including the successes of the tobacco movement, and the divestment movement that helped bring down Apartheid. These victories happened because people like you dared to take a stand.

Can you send your message now?

In solidarity,

Amy Gray
Senior Climate Finance Strategist
Stand.earth

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Help Black Trans Lives Matter

Stop Violence Against Trans Women

& Save Lives

Black Trans Lives Matter was founded by black trans people who are sick and tired of being harassed, bullied, and victims of violence by strangers, coworkers, law enforcement, and even by those we know and love Can we count on you to commit to a donation of $25 to help us create a K12 curriculum about black trans people in order to combat racism and transphobia in our schools? We can't do it without you. Click here to contribute!

Donate Now

Black Trans Lives Matter

https://www.blacktranslivesmatter.life

 ***

In a near-future dystopian world, hope blossoms where mutual aid and democracy begins...

Zonta’s world is turned upside down when Jake arrives at the commune to investigate the disappearance of agents of the Authority. Can she persuade him to switch sides before the Protectors (antifascist fighters) take action?

Available now from Extasy Books: https://www.extasybooks.com/Where-the-Bodies-Lie

***

From RootsAction:

Save Sinjajevina's Nature and Local Communities from a Military Base! People in Montenegro have put their bodies in the way and prevented military exercises on their land -- an amazing victory! But they need our help to make their success permanent and end all efforts to build a NATO military training ground in the mountains of Montenegro. A little support from outside Montenegro can make a world of difference there. Please click here to learn more and to sign and share the petition!
The petition is addressed to: The EU Commissioner for Neighbourhood and Enlargement; and the Ministry of the Defense of Montenegro The petition reads: Stand with the local communities of Sinjajevina and the ecosystems they preserve and: • Ensure the removal of the military training ground in Sinjajevina in a legally binding manner. • Create a protected area in Sinjajevina co-designed and co-governed by local communities. Big events are planned to advance this campaign in the coming months. The more signers of the petition, the more powerful a tool it will be. Sign here. -- The RootsAction.org Team

 

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The Battle

He's back...

The Revolution Continues would be amiss not to mention that Senator Bernie Sanders has officially announced his candidacy for the office of president of the United States of America. Since we are the original "Bernie Blog" (started a few months before a commercial site stole our name) we do keep an eye on the doings of the independent senator from Vermont. 

We've changed our name and transitioned since those exciting early days of following Bernie's campaign to covering the issues that effect everyone--from climate change to health care, from warfare to social justice concerns, from income inequality to student loan debt. Even so, we can't forget our roots. We wish Bernie well in his battle against the forces of darkness, that is, the corporate-owned-and-operated Democratic Party.  

(Somewhere out there, blog co-founder Barb McMillan is smiling down on Bernie and his friends from heaven. I wish you could have lived to see him run again, Barb!)

We hope--and expect--to hear more from "Berners"  in the near future. Please submit your blog posts via email at thebernieblog2016@gmail.com Remember, this is a workplace friendly blog and not an outlet for character assassination. You have Twitter and Facebook and other social media platforms for those kinds of things. We're looking for progressive insights and ideas that can be shared with human beings both here in the US and around the world. 

We hope to hear from you soon. Until then, take care of yourselves and Feel the Bern. Always.

A Battle for the Hearts and Minds of Voters 
is taking place...

The powers-that-be and the haters of net neutrality have made it even more difficult to access this blog site. If you landed here in one piece, consider yourself fortunate. Do us a favor and share the blog link with others. Better yet, share  http://therevolutioncontinues.com with your friends and acquaintances on social media platforms. That URL doesn't seem to be blocked by firewalls--yet. If you have any programming or web site experience and are willing to help The Revolution Continues find a better location on the internet to preach its progressive message, please contact us at the above email. Thank you.

And now it's time to reflect on the toll that activism can take on a person fighting hard for that future to believe in that Bernie Sanders spoke so eloquently about in 2016.

The Battle

by C. A. Matthews

It's Special Election Day in Toledo. The results of this ballot to determine if the Lake Erie Bill of Rights has become part of the city charter won't be known for a few hours yet, so this is why this particular blog post isn't entitled "The Ballot." It's not the only reason, as you'll soon learn.

photo by Stefania Czech

The Battle I'm referencing isn't the two year knockdown, dragged-out struggle to get LEBOR onto the ballot. It's not even a general reference to how difficult it is to be an activist in this day and age when most are content to keep their eyes glued to their phone screens and their minds entertained with state-produced propaganda while filling their bellies with GMOed junk food. It's related to both of these things, but it's more than that. Much more.

My friend and fellow progressive commentator Chris, a.k.a. Vegematic, discusses The Battle openly and honestly in his recent video:
https://youtu.be/uoiJwlun7NY
 

The Battle is more than just activist burn-out or ennui. It's the battle we as human beings have with ourselves when we face a crisis in our existence on this plane and seriously consider  the question, "Is it better for all the causes I hold dear to end it now?" 

Life isn't giving us any indications that all our hard work and prayers to build a better future are going to pan out. Do we continue to draw breath in hopes that the agony of facing The Battle will end some day? We are taught to serve and to work hard without complaint. We reason that perhaps it is simply ourselves who are defective when this impossible task strangles us. We view our meager efforts as getting in the way of others' success. It's selfish and cruel to thwart others' chance at a satisfactory ending. Why are we standing in their way of happiness?

The Battle isn't something that comes and goes--it is constant and always lurking beneath the surface of many sunny faces. Too many. 

To those who have been blessed with the ability to always see the bright side of life, The Battle seems a distant fight, one that they're not particularly eager to enter into with their comrades-in-arms. "Focus on the task at hand and things will work themselves out," they'll lecture, even while knowing that things don't always work out, and there are potentially lethal consequences for not taking their friends' battles seriously.

photo by Anthony Curi

In 2019, the forces of darkness seem more real to activists than ever before. We can't afford to let up in our fights against fascism, racism, sexism, ageism, fill-in-the-blanks-ism. We need all hands on deck and all soldiers on the field. 

We're facing a world war of late-stage capitalism that steals the bread from the mouth of innocents and allows them to die without remorse. We're facing a sick society bent on preventing health care for millions in the United States of America while dropping bombs on millions more in the Middle East. 

Lies mailed to voters by lobbyists

We can't just stop the fight right now with so much at stake to take care of our own walking wounded, can we? But we can and we must. If we don't, then for what purpose do we labor to build a utopia for all to grow and thrive in? There will be blessed few to dwell in it.

Please keep these thoughts in mind the next time you interact with your fellow activists. Tell them how much you appreciate their efforts. Better yet, show them how much you appreciate their efforts. A hug, a kiss, a pat on the back, a dinner and a hot shower--demonstrate that you are glad they are still here, on this physical plane of existence, standing with you. Let them know that you are there for them in the same struggles, both on the streets and in the soul.

It takes so little to be kind, and that kindness can be so beneficial. It can be the seed that grows and spreads the revolution of rising consciousness… that all human beings are to be simply loved and cherished, and even now the creation is anxiously waiting to blossom into the fullness of its purpose.

The ballot boxes will always be with us, and those human beings who fight alongside us to protect our right to the ballot box should always take precedence over petty politics. Give each and every one of your comrades in the struggle the recognition and appreciation they deserve today!

***

 From Friends of the Earth:

The Trump Administration could expose the Grand Canyon area to a massive increase in uranium mining. 

Opening this iconic landscape to mining would lead to its destruction. It would cause devastating water pollution. And it would increase the risk of cancer and other public health issues for local Indigenous communities. 

With the help of Friends of the Earth members like you, we’ve protected our public lands from the greed of the Trump Administration and fossil fuel industry. We need you with us again. 

Take action now: Tell your member of Congress to permanently ban uranium mining near the Grand Canyon!

Since 2012, mining in the area near the Grand Canyon has been prohibited under a twenty year ban. However, the Trump Administration included uranium on a list of 35 minerals it considered ‘critical’ for national security, which could overrule the ban. 

Contaminated water from an abandoned uranium mine on the south rim is already poisoning a creek deep within the canyon, and another mine on the north rim, reopened in 2009, is housing more than two million gallons of contaminated groundwater. 

What’s more, recent water tests show that 15 springs and 5 wells within the Grand Canyon’s watershed contain dissolved uranium concentrations which exceed the standards for safe drinking water. But now, the Trump Administration could reverse the temporary 2012 uranium prohibitions.

It is time for Congress to step in and stop any giveaway to the mining industry for the purpose of building more nuclear warheads and propping up the nuclear energy industry, at the expense of public health and the environment. We need your help to make the ban on uranium mining near the Grand Canyon permanent. Can we count on your support? 

Send your message: Tell Congress to protect the Grand Canyon from the mining industry!

Trump’s vision for our environment is clear. He thinks our public lands are first and foremost meant to be exploited for the benefit of his coal, oil, and uranium industry friends.

With the help of Friends of the Earth members like you, we’ve been leading the fight to keep fossil fuels in the ground on our public lands for years. With your support, we helped build a nationwide movement to preserve these places for future generations.

We can’t let Trump hand over these places to the extractive industry. We need your help to fight back!

Help send 40,000 comments: Tell Congress to defend the Grand Canyon from uranium mines. 

Standing with you,
Nicole Ghio,
Senior fossil fuels program manager,
Friends of the Earth

***

From Credo: We will never give up fighting for net neutrality – and Republicans know it. When Trump's FCC repealed open internet rules, our movement filed lawsuits, pressured Congress and passed state net neutrality laws. Public support for net neutrality has only grown. So instead of trying to beat us, now they want to trick us. Three Republicans in the House of Representatives announced they will be introducing three so-called "net neutrality" bills. These bills would give telecom companies huge loopholes so they can continue discriminatory practices that are bad for consumers.1 Passing them could make it impossible for the FCC to enforce real net neutrality in the future. Fake net neutrality is not net neutrality. But Democrats could easily cave unless we speak up. Our elected officials need to hear that we won't accept anything less than the real open internet rules that Trump's FCC repealed. We need to kill these bills to make room for strong net neutrality legislation that actually protects the open internet for everyone.  Tell Congress: Reject fake net neutrality. Click here to sign the petition. These bills aren't real net neutrality.2 Although they would prohibit certain kinds of anti-competitive practices by broadband providers, they won't restore all the rules we need to protect our rights online. 1 As technology keeps changing, we need the FCC to keep up. By narrowing the definition of net neutrality, these bills would prevent the FCC from adapting to open internet issues of the future.3 By declaring that the internet is not a public utility, the bills would also limit the FCC's ability to protect privacy, ensure universal service, enforce truth in billing and guarantee disability access.4 Democrats in the House of Representatives have said they want a bipartisan net neutrality bill, which means they are open to compromising with Republicans.5 But we cannot compromise on the core principles that keep the internet open and free. Now that Democrats control the House, we have a real opportunity to push Congress to pass meaningful net neutrality legislation and direct the FCC to do its job. But if these bills gain momentum, we could lose that opportunity, maybe forever. Tell Congress: Reject fake net neutrality. Click the link below to sign the petition: https://act.credoaction.com/sign/GOP-net-neutrality?t=9&akid=31706%2E9999572%2E3oTLSZ Thanks for fighting back, Brandy Doyle, Campaign Manager CREDO Action from Working Assets Add your name: References: Kieren McCarthy, "It's OK, everyone – Congress's smart-cookie Republicans have the answer to America's net neutrality quandary," The Register, Feb. 8, 2019. Klint Finley, "Republicans in Congress are talking net neutrality, at least," Wired, Feb. 7, 2019. John Eggerton, "GOP House Members Offer Trio of Net Neutrality Bills," Multichannel News, Feb. 7, 2019. Shiva Stella, "Public Knowledge Opposes Net Neutrality Bills Weakening FCC’s Authority to Protect Consumers," Public Knowledge, Feb. 7, 2019. Harper Neidig, "House members hint at bipartisan net neutrality bill," The Hill, Feb. 7, 2019.

 

Have Yourself A Non-Materialistic Little Christmas

Have Yourself A Non-Materialistic Little Christmas
by C. A. Matthews

We've made it through another year. More of our fellow citizens have died due to gunfire, murderous cops and unattended health conditions. More have gone into bankruptcy because of unpaid student loans and medical bills. More of our fellow human beings have been uprooted from their homelands because of war, drug cartels, and climate change. More have been killed by American drone bombers, merciless ICE and Border Patrol agents, and our financial and military support of corrupt regimes intent on genocide.

Ho. Ho. Ho.

It's difficult to feel "merry" when there's more than enough misery to go around, and yet… Yet there is still hope that things will get better. There is hope that we will see that "future to believe in" eventually after a long, hard struggle. We are seeing signs of the people waking up in France and elsewhere as they don their yellow vests and take to the streets to vocalize their dissatisfaction with the status quo.  The people aren't taking things lying down. One can only hope that Americans will do the same. Odds are we will see some similar protests and marches soon.

In the meantime, we have to find joy in the journey we've embarked upon when we decided to follow the progressive path. We have to take comfort in the companionship of our fellow activists. We have to stand the distance and take our lumps from time to time, knowing full well that potential glory could be lurking right around the corner.

Putting things into perspective, we know that money is essentially a fiction of the sick capitalist state and the endless pursuit of material wealth leads to the hoarding of resources of the Jeff Bezos variety. (Watch a Richard Wolff video to learn more.) The military-industrial complex and its sycophants doesn't need any more of our tax money, either!

As we gather with friends and family during the holidays, let us return to the basics and acknowledge what we can do without. We can do without hatred, grudges and jealousy. We can do with more charity, cooperation and generosity. We can do without buying things we can't afford, we don't really want and we don't have any use for in the long run. We can do with more understanding, compassion and courage.

To re-phrase the song Judy Garland made famous in the movie Meet Me in St. Louis: Have yourself a non-materialistic little Christmas. And a revolutionary New Year. Maybe Santa will put a yellow vest in your stocking if you're good, eh?

Here's more from a group that hasn't lost hope.

Toledoans for Safe Water are fighting the latest attempt at destroying democracy. Please sign the "I Support the Lake Erie Bill of Rights" letter online and share this link with others. You can sign as both an individual and as a representative of your business or organization or church. Thank you.
http://lakeerieaction.wixsite.com/safewatertoledo/support-lebor

  

And now for more insight on hope from our friend in the North.

We Can And Must Build A More Just World
by Vegematic Deluxe

 When one reaches a certain age, our experiences tend to breed a certain cynicism about life. It becomes easy to dismiss all hope for a brighter future. After all, we have repeatedly witnessed our hopes dashed until optimism can seem to be the province of youthful idealism. We consume media that indeed confirms our dark vision of humanity. We isolate ourselves behind screens. We ingest antidepressants, drink, gamble, shop, anything to numb the pain of our  existence. We have forgotten how to be human. If we lose our sense of the possible, we not only do ourselves a disservice--we betray those who come after us.

 My memory drifts back to my childhood in Montreal. At the age of ten, it was 1967 and Montreal was hosting The World's Fair, Expo67. I wandered enthralled and amazed at the futuristic pavilions from every nation on earth. The glittering spires from Iran, America's geodesic dome--even the Soviets got in on the act. My ten year old brain was infused with boundless joy and optimism. I truly believed that the world of the future would be wonderful. People would be evolved enough to put an end to racism, poverty and war, and of course scientific ingenuity would solve our pollution problems.

Of course, my childhood naivety is humorous to me today, yet I can see something of value in it. Something in the innocent belief in a just universe. It's easy for those of us who believe in progressive causes to become bitter and cynical. Many of us have fought the good fight for years only to witness the forces of oppression grow more powerful.

 In 2011, I once again felt that sense of optimism with the Occupy Movement. I felt it again in 2016 when Bernie gave us all hope. Each time our hopes have been dashed on the rocks of corruption and repression, and with it, each time, a little more hope dies. The 61-year-old man in me says that things are hopeless. But every once in a while, the ten-year-old boy reemerges to inspire me to continue. I hope he never goes away.

BIO: Vegematic elaborates on what he calls the "sh*t-o-sphere" of our current society, but deep down he's an optimist. Don't tell him that--or do tell him by leaving a comment on a video at his You Tube channel. He'll return your comment. No kidding. Canadians are nice that way.

***

Since Christmas falls on a Tuesday this year, and we usually post a new blog on Tuesday, we thought we'd take a break this coming week. It'll be the first time we have ever skipped a weekly posting since June of 2015. It's rather amazing considering how hectic life can be. The urgency to keep the progressive dialogue going actually keeps us going through illness and major life upheavals. I hope it does you, too. So, enjoy the week off, but remember--the Revolution will be waiting when you return.

Don't forget you can always click on the archive links on the right sidebar (keep scrolling) and read past posts--Christmas or otherwise--from the past 3 1/2 years. There's a lot of material there you might want to catch up on. (Last year's holiday piece was pretty interesting--A Christmas Story--Republican Style.)  Please share it with others on your social media sites. Nothing ticks the establishment off more than progressives sharing information and thought-provoking commentary with each other. Power to the good people--not the naughty corporations!

***

Protect their future! Give the gift that keeps on giving to the Revolution.

The Revolution Continues has set up an easy way to donate in order to keep it ad-free. Three and a half years without obnoxious pop-up ads (that many news sites have to cover costs) has been great, but the editor does have to pay for internet, electricity, etc., out of her own pocket, and she would like to be able to pay her contributors in the future. 

Please consider donating a buck, $5, $10 or $20--any amount you can share with us to keep this progressive site going without those awful ads is appreciated. Help us become a strong alternative voice protesting against the corrupt establishment and its paid-off corporate mouthpieces. Give to TRC today. Thank you.

You can donate via Paypal at http://paypal.me/camatthews 

And thanks to a generous reader, we have a  domain name. Please share the link: http://therevolutioncontinues.com

Power to the people and not the corporations!

***

This is critical --

Late last week, a conservative U.S. District Court judge in Texas ruled that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional. The ruling advances Republican efforts to kill the ACA and strip millions of their lifesaving and necessary care.

This ruling also violates the will of millions of health care voters like you, who sent a strong message in the midterm elections that we won’t stand for any more attempts to sabotage the ACA.

We will NOT let the GOP get away with this -- call your member of Congress and urge them to protect the ACA.

If this disastrous ruling is upheld, more than 17 million people could lose access to their health care coverage in a single year. Even worse, 130 million more Americans with pre-existing conditions would be left without protection.

The ruling is expected to be appealed, and Senate Democrats already have a plan to intervene. Now, Congress needs to know that we won’t stay on the sidelines while our care is ripped away.

Call your Representative and demand that Congress take action to protect the ACA.

Thanks for keeping up the fight,

The Health Care Voter Team

***

Tell Congress: "People fleeing violence and poverty in Central America and elsewhere should be treated with humanity and compassion – not face family separation, military troops, or criminalization." ADD YOUR NAME

The United States is full of people whose parents were seeking a better life. My great-grandparents were fleeing Ireland after the potato famine. For all of our faults, America was a beacon to many other parts of the world where people were fleeing violence and poverty.

Donald Trump has tried to snuff that beacon, pulling up the ladder of opportunity behind him, and denying the internationally recognized human right of asylum. He deployed troops to the border and imprisoned children. A 7 year old girl recently died in Border Patrol custody this week after her group of migrants turned themselves in.

That’s not how this is supposed to work. By criminalizing the asylum process, Donald Trump is terrorizing families who are just trying to stay safe. It’s unconscionable.

Sign the petition: Respect the human right to migrate and end militarization at the border.

Instead of responding with compassion, President Trump has deployed thousands of troops, shot tear gas at children, and pursued policies to criminalize all who seek refuge. Trump’s cruel strategy is to create as much danger for families seeking asylum here as they faced at home.

People fleeing violence and poverty in Central America and elsewhere should be treated with humanity and compassion – not face family separation, military troops, or criminalization.

It’s time for Congress to stop funding cruelty against immigrants.

Sign the petition: Respect the human right to migrate and end militarization at the border.

Thank you,
Mike Phelan, Progress America

***

A little humorous vignette that makes a good point....